New Chant: Please Sell out!

[Deleted]

I'm sure the talent and management this affects have already explored all the angles on this behind the scenes, but from a fan perspective I was thinking of this while reading about Sara Del Rey wanting to go to WWE, thinking of Amazing Kong already in WWE (presuming she'll return after she has her baby).

Since TNA ("Impact") and WWE are still rivals and all that, I presume that means if any Shimmer wrestler signs with one, they won't be able to appear in the other. But they can still perform in Shimmer, right?

So we fans should be the most supportive of these women, because, theoretically, while we might have say, a couple wrestlers who join WWE and a couple who join TNA, when they come home to Shimmer, that is when we'll see them match up (even if the angles don't carry over, it'll still create a little interest where the fans are concerned, right). So as fans we lose nothing and everybody wins, right?

Now I can't blame anyone for going for more exposure and gigs from the big promotions that can afford to pay more. I will confess I've watched the last couple of episodes of Impact lately just to see Christina Von Eerie (as Toxxin), even if she hasn't gotten to do much yet. And say what you like about Vince Russo, but with Brother Love on the writing team, perhaps things will get better for the female talent over there.

So I see this as a positive thing. If there were more Shimmer caliber female wrestlers in the big promotions actually being used (like there were only a couple of years ago), I might start watching them again.

What are your thoughts?

[freaky]

If you sign with WWE, you're locked in and won't be wrestling for anyone else apart from FCW. If you sign to TNA, you have to get approval from TNA to wrestle elsewhere, and are at the mercy of them changing their minds. Ergo, it's a hassle to book TNA talent, and you can't book WWE talent.

[danger]

In addition to what Lee already posted I must say I myself have a problem with fans accusing wrestlers of "selling out" because they signed with WWE or TNA. It is not selling out when you follow your dream and actually achieve it. It is a terrible trend and frankly I loathe hearing fans chant it at wrestlers. While I would miss sharing a locker room with Del Rey if she were signed (and she SHOULD be!) I would be the first in line to congratulate her.

Let today be the first day of the end of "You sold out".

-AD

[John Hyperion]

I hope Sara signs with WWE, soon even. She deserves it. The idiots who run the company, obviously, don't deserve her but unless and until fans put their money elsewhere that's how it has to be.

[imhwc]

Any wrestler with the kind of talent Sara has deserves the TV time, exposure and paycheck that unforunately only WWE can deliver. And while I'm confident that they'd misuse her like they do with everyone else (and I hate WWE), unless I'm willing to pay her more *not* to sign with them, I have no good argument. I do wish there were more options for legit female wrestlers (and male wrestlers for that matter), but that isn't the case.

[JenniferL134]

Dec 6, 2011 17:36:56 GMT -6 danger said:

In addition to what Lee already posted I must say I myself have a problem with fans accusing wrestlers of "selling out" because they signed with WWE or TNA. It is not selling out when you follow your dream and actually achieve it. It is a terrible trend and frankly I loathe hearing fans chant it at wrestlers. While I would miss sharing a locker room with Del Rey if she were signed (and she SHOULD be!) I would be the first in line to congratulate her.

Let today be the first day of the end of "You sold out".

-AD

Here here. Dreams are dreams, who is anyone to look down on Sara, Serena or anyone else for wanting to make it there? Here's hoping the best for Del Rey.

[Deleted]

So it's a little more complicated than I thought, but I see what you're saying. In the end, it's your career, do what's best for you and your family. The fans will get over it (or not, and that's our problem). We can just follow you guys where you end up going (which is how I got into Shimmer in the first place!).

[animated]

I understand people have childhood dreams. Football and baseball players watched the NFL and MLB when they were little, so naturally when they grow up, they want to play for those leagues. Wrestling is no different. Many (if not all) indie wrestlers probably grew up on the then WWF, so naturally, they want to wrestle for the now WWE. Here's the problem: the WWE is NOTHING like the WWF of yesteryear.

As WWE points out time and time again, wrestling is now the last thing they care about their product. They want to be known solely as an "entertainment" product. They want to be the new Warner Brothers, or Disney Company. WrestleMania (it might as well be called EntertainmentMania now) gets by on overhype and its brand name alone, like many hollow blockbuster movies. RAW is just a wannabe Saturday Night Live variety show. Smackdown, the only program in the company that has the most wrestling, is largely not paid attention to. In other words, while it's where the big money is, it's not the ideal place to wrestle.

So in the event Sara Del Rey, or anyone from Shimmer goes to WWE, hey, good for them. BUT, we're NOT going to get the same Death Ray we got in Shimmer. We will get this watered down and handcuffed wrestler, being kept down in pointless matches that go between 30 seconds to 2 minutes at best, for a championship belt that doesn't really matter at all and never did. Sorry, but it's true. I know everyone is hopeful with Kong/Kharma being there, but with just her, Beth, and Nattie, three great wrestlers a good women's division does not make.

As I have said before, you really don't want Shimmer talent going to mainstream companies, what you want is for Shimmer to get a deal with television or the Internet so their shows can be made more available than just two tapings a year or DVD sells alone. But of course, the excuse of "there's no real market for women's wrestling" is used, which I don't accept for one minute, because if it were true, this company wouldn't have lasted 6 years like it has. And yes, I know whenever the subject of Shimmer seeking a TV deal comes up, the usual reply is "that is not, and never was one of our goals". But there's no harm in baby steps towards that goal. And if you do lose creative control over the company, what's the worst that can happen? The TV network wants the World Championship on a blonde? So what, just have Cheerleader Melissa bleach her hair, or put the title on Daizee Haze, it's not that big a deal.

I know Prazak himself says he hopes Shimmer stays as a company that helps women wrestling get more notice and the wrestlers get more work, and that is exactly what happened. Just about everyone who has wrestled for Shimmer now gets monthly offers from other companies around the world, and has gone on to win titles and hold those titles for long periods of time. However, I totally disagree with Shimmer being a gateway to go on to WWE (or actually, FCW). To me, that's like attending the Juilliard School of Performing Arts just to later appear in softcore porn, or going to the Culinary Institute of America in order to work at McDonald's. You're going from a place that taught you an great amount of skill and ability, only to go to a place where you will be using 1/16th of those skills and abilities, even if the latter place is where the best payday is. Those might be extreme examples, but I'm sure some might agree. My point, I know women's wrestling is a niche product, but it's not going to grow out of that stage if the most respected women's wrestling company has no desire to be anything but a niche product, instead of growing and expanding to reach larger audiences.

But I went off-topic. My point being, you really don't want your favorite Shimmer wrestler to "sell-out", because you will NOT get the same level of performance that she gave in Shimmer now that she's in TNA or WWE. It's a shame, but that's the shallow way mainstream wrestling is in right now. Sad, but true.

[dmpunk]

animated,

Very well said. Almost poetic. But in the end, someone like Sara Del Rey has done about all you can do on the indies. Why not give yourself a challenege and see what you can do in WWE? Will they limit her ability? Yeah, of course. But, much like CM Punk, who knows what lies down the road. At some point, things could change.

And even if she goes to WWE, and it doesn't work out, she can come back to SHIMMER and pick up where she left off. And having "former WWE diva" on her resume can only help her bookings.

[renfro]

Dec 17, 2011 15:50:36 GMT -6 animated said:

As I have said before, you really don't want Shimmer talent going to mainstream companies, what you want is for Shimmer to get a deal with television or the Internet so their shows can be made more available than just two tapings a year or DVD sells alone.

I understand the sentiment, but I have to disagree slightly. In a perfect world, I would love to see Shimmer get a cable television deal with weekly shows and a large mainstream audience. I would love to see Shimmer be the TNA or WWE of women's wrestling in the eyes of mainstream fans. But that is a lot easier said than done.

I think having big Shimmer stars go to TNA or the WWE is a good thing. For one, they get a bigger payday and get the bigger recognition that they deserve. Next, if Shimmer stars go to TNA and the WWE, that will only lead to more exposure for Shimmer. I got into Shimmer to begin with because I liked Cheerleader Melissa's TNA character so I explored her older matches on Youtube and Daily Motion. If she never made it onto TNA, I may not be watching Shimmer today.

So the more Shimmer stars make it onto TNA and WWE, the more mainstream fans might get interested in exploring their older matches and the greater their chances of discovering Shimmer and becoming big fans of Shimmer.

[Duke of Bridgewater]

I wouldn't chant "Please sell out!" "Please join WWE!",
because this means "I don't care if I don't see you wrestle anymore."

As a fan, I have to be thankful that the wrestlers put their body on the line for my entertainment.
I really can't blame anybody for deciding to leave, for whatever reason.

Doing something you always dreamed of, finally getting good money, being on TV, it's not mine to judge.

But I will not pretend to be happy.
SHIMMER is #1 in women's wrestling, and WWE is at the bottom of the list.
If WWE becomes a little (or even a lot) better, it's still not worth to be watched.
They don't even call their product "wrestling" anymore.

So, if somebody joins WWE, I consider him or her retired from wrestling.

Dec 19, 2011 9:12:05 GMT -6 renfro said:

In a perfect world, I would love to see Shimmer get a cable television deal with weekly shows...

TV is bad for wrestling.
Selling the shows on DVD, as SHIMMER and many other high-guality indy promotions do, is the best way to guarantee a good product.

[Deleted]

If she went to WWE, I'd watch it... at least her match(es). I don't watch WWE, but I'd turn it on just to see Kharma land the implant buster, or Impact to see Toxxin throw a few lariats.

I guess I'm hoping the injection of good female workers will have a cumulative effect, but I guess there's no guarantee.

[John Hyperion]

Dec 19, 2011 10:11:23 GMT -6 Duke of Bridgewater said:

So, if somebody joins WWE, I consider him or her retired from wrestling.

More or less. I'd feel the same way as if they left wrestling to become an investment banker or something. Extremely happy for them personally (and financially), but resigned to the loss of them as an artist.

I must say though, anyone who meets Vince McMahon and doesn't punch him in the face for not hiring Del Rey yet has lost my respect as a person. There's no excuse.

[brassy]

Dec 19, 2011 10:11:23 GMT -6 Duke of Bridgewater said:

As a fan, I have to be thankful that the wrestlers put their body on the line for my entertainment.

I've never believed that. If I were a wrestler, I'd do it to have fun and possibly make a living at it.

As for the chant of "please sell out", that would be like spitting on SHIMMER, which I'll never do.

[animated]

Just to follow up on what I posted, there's the infamous picture that CM Punk posted with all the current WWE champions. Now the knee-jerk reaction would be "Look at that! Three former Ring of Honor wrestlers, and a former Shimmer woman as champions! All is right in the world of mainstream wrestling!". That's far from the truth in my opinion. Daniel Bryan was made to look like a jobber ever since he started in WWE. Then they gave him a 30 second reign as World Champion. Sure, he got the title back, but the damage is already done. CM Punk, sorry, but one great promo a great angle doesn't make. He should have streamrolled over everyone put in front of him this year, instead, the title he won exchanged hands like six or seven times since the summer. Beth, come on, it took her three matches to beat Kelly Kelly and she only won the third match because of outside help. And just last Monday, she lost to Alicia Fox in a 50 second match. That doesn't make her seem like an unstoppable to me. And Air Boom, it's just two random guys that had nothing going on for them, so they were put together and given the titles, the same thing that's been done now for years.

In other words, yes, these people are wrestling in front of huge crowds and are being paid well for it. Are they being booked to the best of their abilities? Oh no, FAR from it. In fact, they are made to look like jokes, and seem to be given the titles out of pity, or to just shut actual wrestling fans up. And that is why I don't want any women from Shimmer going to WWE. You may ask what else does Sara Del Ray have to prove in the indies, but I ask what is there for her to prove in WWE? I can't think of a single thing! At least in the indies, she can wrestle for the Chikara Grand Championship and hold the primary title of a man-dominated company, in front of a small, yet passionate crowd. What will she do in WWE? Lose to Kelly Kelly in a 30 second match in front of a large crowd of people who are either sitting on their hands or going on a bathroom break because they couldn't care less? That's the dream she wants to live out? It would like getting your favorite meal for your birthday, yet the meal is served on a dirty trash can lid. You got what you always wanted, but it didn't turn out the way you wanted it.

Shimmer is the best thing for women's wrestling. As I stated before, just about everyone who has worked for Shimmer gets offers from other companies both in North America and abroad, and they have won titles in the process, so it's not like WWE (or TNA) is the only place to go to be successful (unless being on TV is your top goal). And bad booking on the WWE's part takes it's toll, just ask Gail Kim, who got so annoyed, she just walked out of a battle royal match and left the company all together. In other words, the 2 year question of "Was the money worth it, Gail?" turned out to be a very loud "NO!". Or how about Serena Deeb? I know she's beloved by women wrestling fans, but in the eyes of WWE and casual fans, she's only that girl who had her head shaved for CM Punk and nothing else. Yeah, having "WWE" on your resume might look nice, but not if you're not remembered for your in-ring ability! In the end, it's like this one line from the wrestling documentary "Card Subject To Change": "You begin your wrestling career in the indies, and you end your wrestling career in the indies. If you're lucky, you get a memorable run in the big leagues"; keyword: memorable.

That being said, with Dave Pravak and Allison Danger so against a TV series, I really wish they would consider some kind of online show. Look at web series like "The Guild" or "Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog". Those got millions of views and won all kinds of awards. Look at ROH's online deal where you pay a same fee to watch their TV show online, and then pay a larger fee to get extras like past matches and t-shirts. That's a system that Shimmer should be adopting.

I love Shimmer, and I hope nothing but success for them, but at the same time, I don't want to see them be stationary and in the same system that they are in right now for another 6 years. I'm just asking for baby steps towards more exposure to a wider audience, rather than a cop out of "I don't know if there's a market for women's wrestling". If there wasn't Shimmer wouldn't have last 6 years. I would make rather see these women wrestling amazing 10-30 long match of the year contenders in front of 250 people (and more online if they got an internet deal), than have blink and you missed it matches on live TV in front of thousands of people who couldn't care less. But again, that's just my opinion.