VOLS. 45-48 RESULTS/RECAP/DISCUSSION THREAD

[themib]

The one remaining question I have - at the end of 44, did Matthews go out on her own decision, or had Saraya already paid her off by then?

[Deleted]

Relative newcomer talking here (Vol 41-42 was my first live wrestling event ever), but here's some random comments not related to what you guys were just saying (btw, cameltrunk, weren't you one of the folks Saraya threatened on Saturday? I don't remember who made the Paul Stanley comment on here!):

I was there Saturday with the same guy I came with 5 months ago, so of course, the title changes happen on Sunday and we miss 'em! That's okay, had a blast anyway. We drove less than 3 hours to get there, so the fans who went longer, you're just hardcore. Met some interesting people in line, and the St. Patty's day vibe was fun.

Heard folks missing Hiroyo and the others (I miss Nakagawa as well). There were some people petitioning to get Buggy Nova back (not a huge fan, but I signed).

As far as seating and viewing goes, I did learn that some spots are better than others. I sat on the opposite side I did last time (this time across from the Joshi banners if you know what I'm talking about). While it was a bit quieter, I was having to look around the camera guy half the time, especially during certain matches where the action took place mostly in the center of the ring. It turns out Joey Eastman is quite the character, and I caught some of the stuff he was saying to various people on the outside when he wasn't announcing. Hilarious. I wish I'd written it down! Also, probably due to the camera placement, we didn't get much love from the performers, though LuFisto saw my sign, and we got a nod from Death Rey, which was cool.

Really glad to see the return of MsChif's Clockwork Green gear. Yeah, kudos to the guy who said that.

I thought Shazza and Veda would be pretty green, but they played the "little rookie out of her league" underdog thing pretty well, of course it helps that they're cute. XD

As always, I loved the crowd commentary including the "let's go, Mum!" chants for Sweet Saraya and the "No!" chants in opposite to the "O" chants for Athena).

Also, there were some little girls behind us that were really into the main event with Melissa, they were adorable. Little Future Legends?

At the volume break I got to meet one of my heroes, Sara Del Rey, and said hello to our Japanese luchadoras, as well as Hamada and Mercedes. Was disappointed that the Joshi4Hope Xmas wasn't available, but I can wait for the compilation. Didn't buy every piece of merch I wanted, but got some cool stuff, and it was nice to see fans modeling the various t-shirts for future reference. The Joshi I talked to were all super friendly, patient and gracious. It was a bit of a mob trying to get from point A to point B, but that meant it was easier to make a bathroom stop while people were scrambling for autographs and snaps.

I'd say the highlights of the show were the multi-person matches and the tag battles. Courtney Rush and Kellie Skater getting a push was great to see. It was sad to see Madison Eagles just as a talking head, but great to hear her voice. It seemed like there were a LOT of video promos, almost to an excessive degree (compared to barely any Oct 1st), but dimming the lights was a good idea as it was harder to see what was going on last time.

Sooo glad Athena still had her entrance music from last time. She's way over, and I'm glad.

Noticed a couple of bad awesome moves here and there but that's bound to happen at any show, and hopefully from a better angle it won't look so bad.

Again from where I was sitting much of the outside brawling couldn't be seen, even if we stood on our chairs and the outside areas are pretty dark, but you could hear the sounds of Portia getting trashed, and not seeing Mercedes DDted off the guardrail but only the crowd reaction made it seem a lot more painful.

I was wondering how Saraya would get on without her comic entourage (really missed Brittani and Knox). But she turned up the juice on the dangerous heel (nobody to stop her this time, right?) and I think won us all over. So no more of the whiny dame making idle threats, she's out for blood, and I was shocked to hear the spoilers for Sunday. It's much safer to be on her side now. I didn't see where the promos of her went, but I'm guessing some kind of heel stable to replace the old Knight Dynasty?

Nicole Matthews, I think I'm becoming a fan of hers. She's very expressive and her constant whining really starts to get to you. She's got the icy stare thing down as well.

Wanted to see more of O'Really (O'Riley) but we just got the one match which seemed to fly by. Her personality was a good contrast with Rush though.

Mercedes gave it her all each time. It seemed like an effort for her not to break out in smiles like she did when she was face, but she managed it after a chant about her being happy, which was sweet.

Hailey Hatred was once again impressive. I really like her and Kalamity as a team. Kana's icy stare is great, but she broke out a few smiles too.

I felt like we got segregated out at the after party, though the atmosphere and food was far superior to the place from October. I guess it's a balance between getting quality time with your fans and getting a breather from all that attention.

Still, my friend and I got to meet Kana, Melissa, Skater, Athena and Leva at Paisans and they were all really cool (and Sassy Steph ever so briefly). Felt bad that I didn't get to say hello to Ayumi, but maybe next time. Food was good, though it took a long time (as I imagined it would).

So there were some pros and cons for the show. Most of the time there was the right mix of comedy, beauty and violence to make it all seem worthwhile. A couple of times I was worried somebody was going to hit the ceiling (Leon's head looked like it almost missed that big metal vent when she leapt off the turnbuckle, and Melanie Cruz's head looked like it touched the beam when she went up).

Characters were great. The New York Knockout was hilarious as was LuFisto as always. Skater and Chif are always fun, even when they're being more serious. Portia is probably the heel I most love to boo. Seeing what Regen-X comes up with next is a fun guessing game. Their match with the tag champs was very enjoyable.

As far as the wrestling went, we felt like there were fewer flashy moves this time, which I guess meant when they did happen there was a much bigger pop, but then we had matches where there were lots of foiled attempts (like the loop between Jessie's Boyfriend Stealer and Chif's Desecrator). I'd already seen Lufisto and Kalamity's "sit down duel" with the punches and kicks, but it still looked good.

Maybe it was the lighting, but I noticed a lot more bruises and marks on the wrestlers. That got me wondering if maybe more care was being taking to protect everyone this time, even if most of the injuries that were sidelining Shimmer talent lately didn't necessarily occur at the last taping. Since I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, I can't speak on that.

It sounds like a lot went down the following night that I missed, so my perception might be a little one-sided. But what I experienced the first time, and the Vol. 37 DVD were just SO GOOD, it's hard to imagine something topping that anytime soon. But they can be proud of the work they're doing, in any case.

All in all, my first show (Oct 1st) was more memorable, but a lot of cool stuff happened this time too, so I can't wait to come back, and see what I missed on the tapes.

As always, great pics people are posting. I kinda wish I brought a camera in, but I worry that I'd spend the whole time taking snaps instead of watching the action unfold. So to you guys and gals making the flip books, our hats are off to you.

[bigtom63]

Mar 20, 2012 16:08:16 GMT -6 gregorycameltrunk said:

Just a bit of further news on the back story between Melissa and Saraya.

First encounter in January 2007. Saraya's home town with her family in the front row. Saraya was caught in a Cactus Jack style hangman in the ropes and Melissa [the heel]continued to attack her, also attacking her [then 14 year old] daughter Britani when she tried to come to her Mother's aid. Saraya came out at the end of the show, warning Melissa that she would 'get her' when she was fit.

April 2007. London, England. Saraya attacked Melissa after a match and the two had to be separated by numerous wrestlers.

June 2007 - the wild fight that everyone has heard about. Police were called and Saraya literally tore her knee cap off. Here are a few reports I have found from the time:

'Tonight Sweet Saraya, who had a f****** incredible brawl with Cheerleader Melissa that never once even got in the ring, was injured. In fact, the brawl ended up outside, where Melissa bodyslammed Saraya on the cobbled street (bear in mind, this is the same Saraya who could barely walk last weekend at WAWW, so God knows how she was able to fight this evening). Anyway, as it came back through the arena, something happened when they were on the far side of the ring from me (and the hard camera). Referees ended up coming out to restrain Melissa, along with Ricky Knight and The Kraft. Melissa was like a woman possessed trying to rip and tear at Saraya, but something was wrong... Saraya was screaming in agony. Eventually they managed to physically drag Melissa backstage, who by this point had blood on her hands, literally. People and fans huddled around Saraya, who was still shouting in pain. I had no idea whether this was a real injury or part of the bad blood angle with Saraya and Melissa, but Dean Ayass (Booker, Commentator) (who had been over checking on her) shot me a quick "X" sign, so it became clear that this was real. The ambulance was called and everyone stood around, concerned. Len told me that she had split her knee open and there was blood. The ambulance people arrived and worked on Saraya. She's tough as they come, but she was screaming in sheer agony - which is something that I won't forget in a long time. Eventually she was placed on a stretcher and taken out to an ovation.'

'I am afraid the news from the hospital is not good, She has severed a tendon and is having surgery in the next few hours. rick knight. [saraya's husband]

'surgeons have worked on Saraya's knee and the diagnosis is not good, there is a strong possibility her career is over, rick knight'


'As Ricky Knight said - Her knee cap was completley ripped off, we had some photo's taken while doctors were taken a look at it and we'll show you them soon. You also need to see the scars and cuts and bruises that are etched all over Saraya's body - I wasn't there at the venue to see the match and I could feel the pain! Saraya kept on telling me at the hospital that she was gonna be there tomorrow. [She was booked against Amazing Kong the following afternoon!] Ricky Knight went after Melissa after Melissa kept on attacking the knee AFTER the kneecap had been ripped off so.....lot of emotions as far as that concerned and I'll be honest with you from a professional standpoint I don't think we can put those two together again.' Dann Read Chickfight UK promoter.

All very real events at the time.

If indeed this version of events is correct,then at best this puts Melissa's actions in a very questionable light. While sometimes things get unintentionally out of hand in the ring, if someone is severely bleeding and has a body part hanging off of them, the proper thing for an opponent to do would be to cease aggression. This goes way beyond chopping a little too hard, or a veteran taking out frustrations on a being awesome newbie.

I have nothing against Melissa: I think she is a great wrestler and my few personal interactions with her have been quite positive. I would have been perfectly happy to see her walk out of Shimmer 48 with the belt.

However, having read this, I am left scratching my head. I am one who is rather hesitant to pass personal judgements on others, but I am almost forced to side with Saraya in this feud. Once again, assuming this version of events is correct, I ask myself who is the real heel here?

[bigtom63]

oops, being awesome should've been being awesome

[stew]

Mar 20, 2012 20:17:09 GMT -6 bigtom63 said:

Once again, assuming this version of events is correct, I ask myself who is the real heel here?

I'm willing to be proved wrong, of course, but I'm 99% certain that other than the two combatants themselves, I'm the only person who has been at all three Melissa vs Saraya matches (ChickFight 7 in Great Yarmouth, RQW at Colchester, SHIMMER in Berwyn), so I'm corroborating all this as true.

I'm not going to break any personal confidences here about anything that isn't public knowledge, and it's no secret I'm a friend of Saraya, but having been ringside when she was hanging and thrashing in the ropes at CF7, and having been in the building for RQW when she was screaming in pain at her kneecap being taken off while Melissa continued to work on her (I will *never* forget the screaming - just terrifying), Saraya was always going to be a major babyface for me in this feud.

I always felt that the match with Melissa was always something that Saraya needed in her career, but not necessarily something I ever thought would happen. When I say "needed", I don't mean because she owed her a receipt or anything of that nature... just that given the way those matches played out, I always thought that Saraya was cosmically owed one more shot at Melissa.

The fact that Saraya took out Melissa's knee with a wrench (or whatever it was) was poetic justice. A knee for a knee, right? There was definitely a nod to history with that.

I don't know whether Melissa will beat Saraya to win it back or not, but quite honestly, I don't think it matters now. Saraya got her revenge for that night in Colchester, and that's awesome in my book.

[zodo]

Mar 20, 2012 14:43:54 GMT -6 melissarocks said:

really? realllyyyy?

O'Reilly!

[dugbark]

I've had time to reflect more about our first experience. I'm the dad with the daughter and her friend.

In my first post I did not even come close to giving Athena the credit she deserves. The match she had with MM was beyond description and that match alone would have given me my money's worth. Every other match she was in was outstanding. I hope she gets a title shot.

LuFisto I had very high expectations for, as I did MM. Again, LuFisto was all I expected and more. She obviously enjoys what she does and her enthusiasm is contagious.

The picture of Saraya hiding ever behind the man by the pizza was the single creepiest picture from Wrestling I have ever seen. My daughter is scared to death of her as a character and she saw this picture and was still afraid. Thankfully she met Saraya early in the show while they were getting pizza and she was really nice to them. However, they both said they did not want me getting near her because they were afraid she would slap me. I am afraid of her slapping me. :-)

I was speaking with some folks in line both days and there was some analysis of the booking going on. I just want to say, when I walk into a show, especially knowing that 4 DVDs were going to be taped, I suspend all belief and totally let myself not analysis. Like a horror movie, I just enjoy the ride. This entire ride was way beyond enjoyable. I understand that there can be fun is discussing booking, but The Queens of Winning and the Saraya Heel Weekend made none of it matter to me. To see all of those incredible athletes putting on an amazing show for 230 fans (give or take) was equal to any wrestling experience I've had (and while I have not had as many as some of the other fans, I have had a lot dating all the way back to the early 70's.)

Again, I could go on and on.

For 49-52 I will do all I can to get ringside, and will be saving up to spend more on the merchandise. My daughter has said the same. She plans on saving.

I spend most of today reading this thread from beginning to end. What a great discussion.

I just can't say enough how awesome this experience was.

For two days now my mind is constantly signing "Just like a white winged dove, sings a song sounds like she's singing, boo, boo boo" and hearing in my head "Wrrrrrrestling", "Yah", "Shimmmmer", "Yah" and finally everytime someone says "Oh really" I respond "O'Reilly". "Bad Medicine" is just purchased on my Iphone too.

Enough said, sorry for the long wordy post, but I suspect you all understand :-)

[blazermaniac5]

Mar 20, 2012 12:24:10 GMT -6 melissarocks said:

Mar 20, 2012 11:50:14 GMT -6 Woo said:

Is it still real to you, is that what it is? I'll answer it from a kayfabe point of view then. She's had more chances than anybody, so if Eagles and Perez call her a choke artist then they'd have a point. Yep Lufiso, McKay, Lacey, Kong, Stock and Deeb failed on their 2nd Shimmer Volumes title match, whereas Melissa won hers, but then again it only took Del Rey, MsChif, Eagles and Knight one title match to win the belt. And rather than feel bad for Mel remember that Jetta, Haze, Ariel, Wesna, Roxx, Ayumi, Mercedes, Hamada, Hiroyo, Matthews and Perez have only had one title match in Shimmer while some like Allison Danger have never had a chance!

If you aren't a mark and don't want a kayfabe answer then would you rather Melissa hadn't won the belt and wasn't won of only 5 ladies out of the 97 who have wrestled in a Shimmer ring that could call herself "champion"?

You look on the bright side way too much ... still you're right about some points
It's just some SHIMMER bookins buffle me , like Madison Gets a #1 contender's match against simply for beating Sassy Stephie , while at the time Del Rey had just had a MOTY with Hamada and Melissa was on a 4-0 winning streak, Or when Saraya gets a title shot WHEN SHE DIDN'T EVEN WIN , she lost, she got herself DQ'ed... she freaking lost !!!! if Melissa wanted a 1 on 1 match, it shouldn't have been for the title, SHE DID NOTHING TO EARN IT !

That was my original point. Saraya got a title match & didn't deserve it, based on the fact she didn't win her matches before the last volume. I didn't figure that Melissa would have a long title reign. She doesn't need a title, because she is a major star in wrestling for the past decade. Saraya is fairly new at Shimmer & her getting the title that soon, didn't make much sense.

[Deleted]

Those saying it shouldn't have been a title match need to look at these tropes:

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RevengeBeforeReason
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StupidGood

It's quite simple. Saraya knows that Melissa can be a bit hot-headed at times and can let her temper get the better of her. Knowing that, she played Melissa in a truly Stradivariusian fashion. First, she gets under Melissa's skin by hiring mercenaries to try and take her out. Then she ups the ante by going after Melissa's knee backstage. Melissa at this point has had enough and just wants to be rid of Saraya once and for all and foolishly wagers everything on being able to do it. But she can't put her nemesis away and brains once again triumphs over brawn.

[gingerjaffa]

If you havnt listened to the Saraya and Britani knight podcast on ringbelles (i think it's podcast 19) you really should, Saraya talking about her match with Melissa and her injuries. it was an awsome listen!

[MC LevaMark]

Back to the real world, which means I'm able to finally be online to share my thoughts on this past weekend...

-First and foremost, I give a shoutout to those in the Shimmer Line Discussion Round Table: Amsterdam the Amsterdamian; Chicago's Very Own, Dave; The Chairman of Old School NWA; Black Sheep Knight, the disowned adopted son of Saraya Knight; Fez, who was an unfortunate victim of the wrath of Saraya Knight prior to her title victory; my two favorite Missourians whom I don't have monnickers for yet, but will hopefully come up with some by the next taping; and a few others who also don't yet have monnickers but, seem to enjoy joining the conversation so they deserve monnickers. You all make the wait to get into the building a lot more fun than it would be otherwise and I love you all for it. ;D

-Leva Bates: 'nuff said.

-Courtney Rush: I've liked her from the first moment she appeared as PJ Tyler, and I absolutely adore her now. Much like Leva and LuFisto before her, it is absolutely impossible for me to believe that anybody is incapable of liking Courtney. She's all goofy and yet more than capable of going toe to toe with the best Shimmer has to offer in a completely buy-able fashion. The "Queens of Winning/Death Rush" story is absolutely spectacular and I can't wait to see if she can turn the cold hearted Death Rey back to the light side of the Force.

-Melissa... don't get me wrong, I love Melissa, we all love Melissa, everybody loves Melissa. I have to say, however, I was very happy that her title reign was brief. The only reason I say this is because Melissa, being the living tissue over a metal endoskeleton that she is, is not exactly one who has many equals in the ring. With the exception of 4 matches that took place post-Chif feud (Alexa Thatcher, Vol. 15; LuFisto, Vol. 20; Wesna, Vol. 26; Kellie Skater, Vol. 28), I've always kinda saw Melissa's matches as being "paint by numbers" in so much as there is little question that Melissa is coming out the winner and the way in which she got to that win was very "lather, rinse, repeat", which seems to be the biggest reason people don't like Hulk Hogan or John Cena. When there are so very few who can match the juggernaut that is Melissa, I felt unless Dave came up with a creative way out, that we would have had the same scenario that might have been had Kong beaten Death Rey for the title back on Vol. 15. Which brings us to...

-Our new Shimmer Champion, Saraya Knight. This woman terrifies me beyond the capacity for rational thought. We were speculating during Round Table discussions on Sunday, the possiblity of Saraya being one of Melissa's opponents and the "remote" possibility that she would walk away from this set of tapings as champ. The repeated tagline gag for that hypothetical scenario, based on Saraya's ruthless disdain for her opponents and the fan base alike(particularly hapless victims like Fez and Black Sheep who are just trying to have fun with 'Mum', or the fans who appear to be trying to put themselves over by essentially picking a fight with her) became this:

"Watch our champion murder somebody!"

Now that the hypothetical is a reality... what will "Mum" do to any who oppose her, be they wrestler or fan?

Saraya is definitely in a league all by herself. She's more terrifying than Chif, more brutal than Melissa, more disdainful than Death Rey... She can be defeated, but, she'll make you earn every bit of it and then make you pay double for it when it's all over, so much so that those of weaker courage may consider letting her win so that their suffering is not quite as legendary. She is the heel to end all heels, and while I think she may take the bit just a tad too far sometimes, I honestly don't know if I want her to back off at all because it wouldn't feel the same.

-I was a little more impressed with Kana this time than I was last time. Doesn't mean I'm on the bandwagon. Doesn't mean I get the hype that surrounds her from others on this board. But, she did give me reason to pay a little more attention next time, which is a big step considering I just wasn't into her at all last time. In time, I may come to even really like Kana, but until then, my opinion is what it is.

-Ray and Leon. Both were really good, but, there was just something about Ray that really sold me on her a little more than Leon. Not sure if it was her awesome theme song with all the violins or that cartwheel powerbomb she did that said to me "oh, yes, Mr. Prazak... Ray's a keeper". Either way, Ray... PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK!

-The Queens of Winning/Death Rush have made me care about the tag titles again, mostly because it gives those titles a story arc that they've not had until now. For the longest time, I really felt like the tag titles were little more than a happy afterthought in the wake of the unfortunate circumstance where they were won by the Ninjas on Vol. 26 and then not defended by them on Shimmer home turf until almost an entire calendar year later due to Portia's illness. Then, once back in the Eagles' Club, the titles were defended against a couple established teams with maybe one tag victory leading into the defense, teams that were established elsewhere but, hadn't really proven to the Shimmer Faithful at large that they were worthy of a title shot, or sometimes even teams that were one or two time deal at best who hadn't actually beaten anybody to warrant the shot they were given. It had gotten to the point where on Sunday during the Round Table, I was actually suggesting the dissolution of the Tag Titles because I was truly feeling they had become essentially irrelevant because I perceived there to be sigificantly less emphasis on building a strong tag division when singles wrestling is where the true glory seemed to reside.

Now, however, you have this brilliantly awkward dynamic wherein only one half of the tag team champions has their heart in being part of their team. Will Death Rey continually attempt to sabotage matches and put the burden on Courtney to will the team to victory and retention of the belts? Will being a champion once more, re-ignite Death Rey's competitive fire and show her, even if it is begrudgingly so at first, do her part in keeping the title? Will the carefree and downright goofy approach to life taken by Courtney Rush melt the ice cold heart of The Queen of Wrestling, perhaps one day leading to "The Final Countdown" once again being heard in the Eagles' Club, heralding her arrival to the ring? This has the makings of an epic tale and imo, brings some much needed attention to the tag titles that would not necessarily be there otherwise.

Apologies for the rambling... but I had a lot of time to think, and I am, much to many others' dismay, a perpetual wordsmith who uses 7 words when 4 will do. Just some thoughts to take or leave as you please. Thanks for reading.

One final aside though... While I always have a lot of fun at Shimmer tapings, otherwise why would I continue to come back considering the travel and expense, I have to truly say that this is the most fun I've had at a Shimmer taping since the Vol. 19/20 taping back in 2008, and that Volumes 44-48, until they themselves are topped, will be considered by me, to be the greatest set of volumes that I have been present for, which is saying a lot since I was only not present for volumes 1,2, and 14. There was something especially above and beyond how everything played out this past weekend that made me be very grateful to have been blessed with first knowing Rain so I would learn about Shimmer from her, and then continuing to be blessed financially to be able to come back each time. Dave and the talent he employs never cease to amaze me. And to each of them, I give a very hearty and sincere "Thank You!"

[gingerjaffa]

Great Promo Saraya was true to her word
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PBGQ6QBWxE

[defective14]

I feel it's important to point out that right now Mia Yim and Davina Rose are sitting at 0-8 and 0-6 respectively (though I might be off a number or two in that department). Some people are questioning why these two are still on the roster when they're not getting any wins and are essentially the modern day Lorelei Lee.

See the difference between Yim/Rose and Lorelei is that every time Yim/Rose go out, they're actually improving and putting on kick-ass matches (or at least entertaining ones at that) whereas Lorelei Lee wasn't really improving whatsoever and as a result was just used as jobber fodder for the more over/established roster.

I have my assumptions on what DP is going for here and it stems from the Guest Booker commentary that Gabe Sapolsky did shortly after he was fired from being RoH head booker back in 2008. In it Sapolsky states one of the things he would do is book a talent in such a way where they are constantly putting on strong performances, but usually end up on the losing end of things and end up racking quite a few losses. As a result the fanbase of said wrestler would get pissed off and rant about it on the forums so much that when Gabe finally decided to start having that certain talent win, the supports of said talent would get a personal sense of vindication as they were fans from that talent since the beginning of their run.

That same logic can be applied here. Yim/Rose bumped their tails off and put forth strong performances back in October and at this recent set of tapings. They were utilized in such a fashion to help advance current angles as well as get a strong showing out of them and their opponents. I'm fairly certain there are Yim/Rose fans who are frustrated with the fact that they have yet to taste a win, but rest assured that time is coming and pretty soon Yim/Rose will be staples of the SHIMMER card for years to come.

[themib]

I was so happy when Mia and Davina got their first win, fairly certain it won't be their last.

[nymc32986]

Mar 20, 2012 21:16:16 GMT -6 zodo said:

Mar 20, 2012 14:43:54 GMT -6 melissarocks said:

really? realllyyyy?

O'Reilly!

O-O-O-O'Reillyyyyyyyy Auto Parts!



Still isn't better than N-N-N-N-Napa Know How!