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Post by Stevie on Sept 21, 2015 12:43:07 GMT -6
Calling Eden Black a "wannabe Lita" means I really do have to ask: Have you ever actually seen Eden Black or Lita wrestle? I'll answer a little less snarky. I don't like the STYLE. I think lucha libre is absolute crap and an insult to pro wrestling. That means any of that flippy dippy stuff. Garbage. You want to do that be a gymnast. But that's me, I'm old school I guess. Yes I'm the kind who prefers a 10 minute chinlock to 826 degree rotation flips that mean absolutely nothing because no one sells anything. I also don't like the 12 inch thick kick pads so people can kick full strength as well as people who chop others into oblivion. Yeah, Mercedes was great but still... to me the art is making it like it hurts but not actually hurting someone. Where is the art in chopping someone 100 times, making them bleed...you really DID hurt them, that's not an art. All Lita did was flip. Big deal. Eden just...bleh. Does the flippy dippy I'm gonna land in a certain way just for you even though it makes no sense and doesn't happen in any other matches like Rey Misterio make kids pop? Unfortunately. But that's not my fault. My point was, other than the red hair there is absolutely zero similarity between them. They wrestle completely differently. They dress completely differently. Their characters are completely different. So calling Eden Black a "wannabe Lita" makes no sense.
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Post by Woo on Sept 21, 2015 15:28:21 GMT -6
Calling Eden Black a "wannabe Lita" means I really do have to ask: Have you ever actually seen Eden Black or Lita wrestle? I'll answer a little less snarky. I don't like the STYLE. I think lucha libre is absolute crap and an insult to pro wrestling. That means any of that flippy dippy stuff. Garbage. You want to do that be a gymnast. But that's me, I'm old school I guess. Yes I'm the kind who prefers a 10 minute chinlock to 826 degree rotation flips that mean absolutely nothing because no one sells anything. I also don't like the 12 inch thick kick pads so people can kick full strength as well as people who chop others into oblivion. Yeah, Mercedes was great but still... to me the art is making it like it hurts but not actually hurting someone. Where is the art in chopping someone 100 times, making them bleed...you really DID hurt them, that's not an art. All Lita did was flip. Big deal. Eden just...bleh. Does the flippy dippy I'm gonna land in a certain way just for you even though it makes no sense and doesn't happen in any other matches like Rey Misterio make kids pop? Unfortunately. But that's not my fault. I do totally disagree with you about Eden. She wasn't a high flyer nor did she do any flippy stuff. She did like her kicks, but she was a good technical wrestler. She had some fantastic matches in Chickfight, one against Kong was an especially good one. That said I completely agree about Mercedes chops. I made the exact same argument in my review of Volume 7 that the whole idea of pro-wrestling is to make it look like you are hurting your opponent without actually doing it. Shameless plug! shimmerreviews.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/shimmer-volume-7.html
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Post by ratetankmark on Sept 21, 2015 15:35:56 GMT -6
When The Young Bucks sell out Tokyo Dome by doing 10 minutes of chain wrestling then let me know.
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Post by Demonic Eeyore on Sept 24, 2015 6:40:42 GMT -6
I'll answer a little less snarky. I don't like the STYLE. I think lucha libre is absolute crap and an insult to pro wrestling. That means any of that flippy dippy stuff. Garbage. You want to do that be a gymnast. But that's me, I'm old school I guess. Yes I'm the kind who prefers a 10 minute chinlock to 826 degree rotation flips that mean absolutely nothing because no one sells anything. I also don't like the 12 inch thick kick pads so people can kick full strength as well as people who chop others into oblivion. Yeah, Mercedes was great but still... to me the art is making it like it hurts but not actually hurting someone. Where is the art in chopping someone 100 times, making them bleed...you really DID hurt them, that's not an art. All Lita did was flip. Big deal. Eden just...bleh. Does the flippy dippy I'm gonna land in a certain way just for you even though it makes no sense and doesn't happen in any other matches like Rey Misterio make kids pop? Unfortunately. But that's not my fault. My point was, other than the red hair there is absolutely zero similarity between them. They wrestle completely differently. They dress completely differently. Their characters are completely different. So calling Eden Black a "wannabe Lita" makes no sense. Yet I see one and immediately think of the other as well as on one of Eden's matches in Shimmer a small "Jese-Lita" chant went up so what do I know. Anyway, just to clarify I'm not attacking you or anything I'm just real passionate about stuff and know what I like and don't like. I realize my tastes are out of touch with the majority today (unfortunately) but I'd die for Shimmer and what it represents and that's what counts.
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Post by Demonic Eeyore on Sept 24, 2015 6:42:36 GMT -6
When The Young Bucks sell out Tokyo Dome by doing 10 minutes of chain wrestling then let me know. The world has changed my friend. Between Vince McMahon, MMA, Lucha Libre & Garbage wrestling I don't know which did more damage to actual pro wrestling but it makes me sigh a deep and painful regret.
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Post by Demonic Eeyore on Sept 24, 2015 7:42:10 GMT -6
I actually just watched that great match Hmada vs. Eagles where MAdison kicked out of the AP cross at 1 and then Hamada kicked out of the first hellbound. Boy, I'll tell ya I really think there's no doubt Madison is the greatest Shimmer champ ever. She is an awesome wrestler, gets heel heat by being sneaky and cowardly yet after winning the belt went thru all the top faces and pinned them clean. Can Nicole even beat ANYONE clean?
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Post by Stevie on Sept 24, 2015 13:24:22 GMT -6
My point was, other than the red hair there is absolutely zero similarity between them. They wrestle completely differently. They dress completely differently. Their characters are completely different. So calling Eden Black a "wannabe Lita" makes no sense. Yet I see one and immediately think of the other as well as on one of Eden's matches in Shimmer a small "Jese-Lita" chant went up so what do I know. Anyway, just to clarify I'm not attacking you or anything I'm just real passionate about stuff and know what I like and don't like. I realize my tastes are out of touch with the majority today (unfortunately) but I'd die for Shimmer and what it represents and that's what counts. No form of sport or entertainment is worth dying for; it's only wrestling...
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Post by Woo on Sept 24, 2015 13:50:00 GMT -6
I actually just watched that great match Hmada vs. Eagles where MAdison kicked out of the AP cross at 1 and then Hamada kicked out of the first hellbound. Boy, I'll tell ya I really think there's no doubt Madison is the greatest Shimmer champ ever. She is an awesome wrestler, gets heel heat by being sneaky and cowardly yet after winning the belt went thru all the top faces and pinned them clean. Can Nicole even beat ANYONE clean? She was the best champion ever yes. But what happened after she kept winning clean? She was cheered. Nicole is a heel, she should cheat every now and then.
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Post by ratetankmark on Sept 24, 2015 16:33:50 GMT -6
I actually just watched that great match Hmada vs. Eagles where MAdison kicked out of the AP cross at 1 and then Hamada kicked out of the first hellbound. Boy, I'll tell ya I really think there's no doubt Madison is the greatest Shimmer champ ever. She is an awesome wrestler, gets heel heat by being sneaky and cowardly yet after winning the belt went thru all the top faces and pinned them clean. Can Nicole even beat ANYONE clean? She was the best champion ever yes. But what happened after she kept winning clean? She was cheered. Nicole is a heel, she should cheat every now and then. I don't even think she needs to cheat, per-say, just be as obnoxious and as irritating as possible in promos and in her in ring antics; as long as she shows disrespect to her opponents she'll get booed regardless if she wins with a Vancouver Manoeuvre (great move but the name is lame as ****) or by throwing a fireball into her opponents face.
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Post by ratetankmark on Sept 24, 2015 16:42:02 GMT -6
When The Young Bucks sell out Tokyo Dome by doing 10 minutes of chain wrestling then let me know. The world has changed my friend. Between Vince McMahon, MMA, Lucha Libre & Garbage wrestling I don't know which did more damage to actual pro wrestling but it makes me sigh a deep and painful regret. I think that the only thing that has done damage is Garbage Wrestling. Lucha Libre is one of my favourite forms of professional wrestling; I view professional wrestling as singing; you have many different variations under the same umbrella; hell, one of my favourite promotions is Lucha Underground and they do flips and dives all the time and it makes me appreciate the athleticism of the wrestlers; it's far from the most realistic thing in the world but since everyone knows professional wrestling isn't legitimate, why the **** should we keep things realistic? Call me crazy but I think that the main thing about wrestling is that it's fun. I have no problem with old school 'rasslin' but it, personally, bores me. I respect that you work over a hold and that's cool, but a whole match of working over the same body part will get me to tune out pretty quickly whereas a series of insane dives or intricate moves will get me interested. Not having a jab at you or anything, but maybe the reason that old school wrestling has (thankfully) died out is because wrestling fans want more than working over body-parts for 15 minutes.
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Post by Demonic Eeyore on Sept 25, 2015 7:01:12 GMT -6
Yet I see one and immediately think of the other as well as on one of Eden's matches in Shimmer a small "Jese-Lita" chant went up so what do I know. Anyway, just to clarify I'm not attacking you or anything I'm just real passionate about stuff and know what I like and don't like. I realize my tastes are out of touch with the majority today (unfortunately) but I'd die for Shimmer and what it represents and that's what counts. No form of sport or entertainment is worth dying for; it's only wrestling... Well, actual physical death might be a stretch. I'd willingly receive a nasty indian burn and atomic wedgie though!
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Post by Demonic Eeyore on Sept 25, 2015 7:02:49 GMT -6
I actually just watched that great match Hmada vs. Eagles where MAdison kicked out of the AP cross at 1 and then Hamada kicked out of the first hellbound. Boy, I'll tell ya I really think there's no doubt Madison is the greatest Shimmer champ ever. She is an awesome wrestler, gets heel heat by being sneaky and cowardly yet after winning the belt went thru all the top faces and pinned them clean. Can Nicole even beat ANYONE clean? She was the best champion ever yes. But what happened after she kept winning clean? She was cheered. Nicole is a heel, she should cheat every now and then. Key point is "every now and then". That's all her and Portia do is cheat and screw people over every stinking match. Why I have so much heat with th....hey, wait a minute!
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Post by Demonic Eeyore on Sept 25, 2015 7:06:38 GMT -6
The world has changed my friend. Between Vince McMahon, MMA, Lucha Libre & Garbage wrestling I don't know which did more damage to actual pro wrestling but it makes me sigh a deep and painful regret. I think that the only thing that has done damage is Garbage Wrestling. Lucha Libre is one of my favourite forms of professional wrestling; I view professional wrestling as singing; you have many different variations under the same umbrella; hell, one of my favourite promotions is Lucha Underground and they do flips and dives all the time and it makes me appreciate the athleticism of the wrestlers; it's far from the most realistic thing in the world but since everyone knows professional wrestling isn't legitimate, why the **** should we keep things realistic? Call me crazy but I think that the main thing about wrestling is that it's fun. I have no problem with old school 'rasslin' but it, personally, bores me. I respect that you work over a hold and that's cool, but a whole match of working over the same body part will get me to tune out pretty quickly whereas a series of insane dives or intricate moves will get me interested. Not having a jab at you or anything, but maybe the reason that old school wrestling has (thankfully) died out is because wrestling fans want more than working over body-parts for 15 minutes. But it was real back then dat gum it! But seriously in regards to garbage wrestling not just the actual carnage brought forth but the Philly fans were a black mark on the sport as well. Yelling out wrestlers real names and "You Effed Up" and "She's a crack whore"....really? the sport needs that? Heel or not there's a level to be crossed between heel heat and flatout being a jackass. Plus I'm just bitter. Real real bitter. Darn sports entertainment!
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Post by ratetankmark on Sept 25, 2015 8:39:11 GMT -6
I think that the only thing that has done damage is Garbage Wrestling. Lucha Libre is one of my favourite forms of professional wrestling; I view professional wrestling as singing; you have many different variations under the same umbrella; hell, one of my favourite promotions is Lucha Underground and they do flips and dives all the time and it makes me appreciate the athleticism of the wrestlers; it's far from the most realistic thing in the world but since everyone knows professional wrestling isn't legitimate, why the **** should we keep things realistic? Call me crazy but I think that the main thing about wrestling is that it's fun. I have no problem with old school 'rasslin' but it, personally, bores me. I respect that you work over a hold and that's cool, but a whole match of working over the same body part will get me to tune out pretty quickly whereas a series of insane dives or intricate moves will get me interested. Not having a jab at you or anything, but maybe the reason that old school wrestling has (thankfully) died out is because wrestling fans want more than working over body-parts for 15 minutes. But it was real back then dat gum it! But seriously in regards to garbage wrestling not just the actual carnage brought forth but the Philly fans were a black mark on the sport as well. Yelling out wrestlers real names and "You Effed Up" and "She's a crack whore"....really? the sport needs that? Heel or not there's a level to be crossed between heel heat and flatout being a jackass. Plus I'm just bitter. Real real bitter. Darn sports entertainment! I wouldn't say bitter, just extremely, extremely old school; I'm pretty much the opposite, I'm the kinda wrestling fan who loves a bit of everything but I've never understood the whole old-school obsession with respect, while we're on the subject, why should wrestlers give a **** if they get respected or not, it isn't currency and it doesn't pay the bills. I guess you could say I'm a bit of a Millennial and I don't see why that is such a negative thing.
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Post by themib on Sept 25, 2015 14:48:53 GMT -6
For the record, Nicole has a couple of clean wins in her run - I recall her wins over Evie and Kay Lee Ray being clean. You could even make an argument that Eagles on Volume 74 was clean, yes Nicole had her foot on the rope to prevent Eagles winning the title, but I seem to recall Matthews just needing a Vancouver Manoeuvre after that to put Madison away.
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