|
Post by blazermaniac5 on Oct 7, 2010 22:52:10 GMT -6
I was a Lacey fan, long before that promo. There was a time, that anything Lacey did, was GOLD! Lacey was smart enough to understand what the TV executives wanted. And, she wanted no part of it. The mic skills, as well as her wrestling, made Lacey one of the most popular women wrestlers, despite her heel persona.
|
|
|
Post by MC LevaMark on Oct 7, 2010 23:39:06 GMT -6
I was a Lacey fan, long before that promo. There was a time, that anything Lacey did, was GOLD! Lacey was smart enough to understand what the TV executives wanted. And, she wanted no part of it. The mic skills, as well as her wrestling, made Lacey one of the most popular women wrestlers, despite her heel persona. The only thing she wasn't very good at was being a face. Seeing her as a face on either Rain's or her compilation tapes was just unnatural.
|
|
|
Post by Duke of Bridgewater on Oct 29, 2010 15:31:26 GMT -6
Okay, after being a bit pissed after the first try, ROH started to prove to me that they can do better (sometimes). You just picked the wrong shows. There have been several solid women's matches in ROH that were given time to develop. Some of them: Sara Del Rey & Allison Danger vs. MsChif & Serena Deeb (Fifth Year Festival Chicago) Sara Del Rey & Allison Danger vs. Jetta & Eden Black (Fifth Year Festival Finale) Daizee Haze & Amazing Kong vs. Lacey & Sara Del Rey (Man Up) MsChif & Daizee Haze vs. Minnesota Home Wrecking Crew (Driven) Mercedes Martinez vs. Allison Danger vs. Lacey vs. Daizee Haze (Best In The World) MsChif vs. Sara Del Rey (Rising Above 2008) Sara Del Rey vs. Serena Deeb vs. Daizee Haze vs. Ashley Lane (Southern Hostility) MsChif vs. Daizee Haze (Stylin & Profilin) Nicole Matthews vs. MsChif (Clash of the Contenders) Sara Del Rey vs. Lacey (Death Before Dishonor V) Sara Del Rey vs. Lacey (Unscripted III) Daizee Haze vs. Sara Del Rey (6th Anniversary Show) Daizee Haze vs. Lacey vs. Ashley Lane vs. MsChif (Return Engagement) Minnesota Home Wrecking Crew vs. Allison Danger & Sara Del Rey (Battle of St. Paul) Amazing Kong vs. Sara Del Rey (Supercard of Honor V) Daizee Haze & Amazing Kong vs. Lacey & Sara Del Rey (Man Up) was perfect. It was not part of the PPV (which is OK, since I never got the idea PPVs anyway), so it was not tarnished by other wrestlers story lines. It was a match to put over Kong as a serious challenger for the great Sara Del Rey, as well as to put over women's wrestling in general. They got 15 minutes and filled them well. (No surprise, of course.) In Sara Del Rey & Allison Danger vs. Jetta & Eden Black (Fifth Year Festival Finale) things looked a bit different though. Granted, Jetta and Jezebel were newcomers to ROH, but they also were guests. I'm sure ROH didn't just pick two random British wrestlers to job for Danger and SDR and got two of the very best by accident. So, in order to let every woman do her stuff in only six and a half minutes, there was often no real build-up. Moves like the "Garden of Eden" and the "Royal Butterfly" came out of nowhere (not in a positive way). I think, a lot of ROH fans thought "not bad for women" after the match. Five more minutes, and they would have thought "not bad for ROH competitors."
|
|
|
Post by royaldc on Oct 29, 2010 16:15:55 GMT -6
I liked the women's tag match from the Fifth Year Festival Finale show exactly the way (and length) it was for it's place on the show. Longer matches don't always mean better matches, especially when a particular match isn't meant to be a featured main event style match to begin with. Not to mention, (to the best of my knowledge) it was the first time those four ever wrestled against each other. To give them 12-15 minutes on one of ROH's few events in the UK would have not only been excessively risky, but in many ways foolish considering those shows and what needed to be featured and accomplished on them.
|
|
|
Post by tswdm on Oct 29, 2010 16:29:04 GMT -6
Danger mentions on her Quick Shootin' DVD that the tag match was a tryout of sorts for Jetta and Jezebel to come to SHIMMER.
|
|
|
Post by Duke of Bridgewater on Oct 30, 2010 1:16:40 GMT -6
Yes, in it's context it surely makes sense. (It may also make sense that Jimmy Jacobs painted himself with BJ Whitmer's blood, but I don't want to see something like this.)
I buy ROH DVDs just to see good matches, regardless of any story lines. The 5th Year Finale was certainly a very good show, and it would have been a very good show even without the girls. But without the girls, I would have missed it. [glow=red,2,300]Jetta and Jez put my ass in this seat![/glow]
|
|
|
Post by Ryan on Oct 30, 2010 6:42:28 GMT -6
I buy ROH DVDs just to see good matches, regardless of any story lines. [glow=red,2,300]Jetta and Jez put my ass in this seat![/glow] Of course, these two statements make you part of a small, small minority of the overall audience. You can't exactly expect ROH to cater to you when the majority of their base wants something different, which I think has been the main problem with the numerous complaints I've seen you post about the involvement of women in ROH over the past several months.
|
|
|
Post by Duke of Bridgewater on Oct 30, 2010 9:04:51 GMT -6
You can't exactly expect ROH to cater to you when the majority of their base wants something different. They would be absolutely crazy if they did. ROH ran 43 big shows in 2007 alone, this can only work when they keep people constantly interested. (For example, with a brutal Jimmy Jacobs vs BJ Whitmer feud.) With "just good matches, regardless of any story lines", they might have been able to run about once per month or so, and would probably not be around anymore after more than 8 years. Thinking it over, of course I follow a big storyline too, leading from Volcano Girls and Chickfight to Shimmer. I just pick and choose from other promotions what somehow fits into it.
|
|
|
Post by John Hyperion on Oct 30, 2010 9:52:58 GMT -6
Of course, these two statements make you part of a small, small minority of the overall audience. I somehow doubt the vast, vast majority of ROH fans were buying DVDs to see how The Embassy vs Necro Butcher played out. Great matches is what gets the buzz, and they get that buzz regardless of storyline. I've never seen anything to indicate different, not to say some of their good storylines haven't worked either.
|
|
|
Post by Ryan on Oct 30, 2010 10:37:28 GMT -6
Of course, these two statements make you part of a small, small minority of the overall audience. I somehow doubt the vast, vast majority of ROH fans were buying DVDs to see how The Embassy vs Necro Butcher played out. Great matches is what gets the buzz, and they get that buzz regardless of storyline. I've never seen anything to indicate different, not to say some of their good storylines haven't worked either. ROH was at its hottest when they did the promotion versus promotion feud with CZW in 2006. There were some great individual matches then, but the hook was the storyline just as much as if not more than the in-ring action. Their biggest success was primarily storyline driven. If the promotion didn't have quality matches, it just wouldn't be ROH. However, all of the most-talked about programs in the company history from where I sit have involved a solid angle as well.
|
|
|
Post by John Hyperion on Oct 30, 2010 13:38:37 GMT -6
I somehow doubt the vast, vast majority of ROH fans were buying DVDs to see how The Embassy vs Necro Butcher played out. Great matches is what gets the buzz, and they get that buzz regardless of storyline. I've never seen anything to indicate different, not to say some of their good storylines haven't worked either. ROH was at its hottest when they did the promotion versus promotion feud with CZW in 2006. There were some great individual matches then, but the hook was the storyline just as much as if not more than the in-ring action. Their biggest success was primarily storyline driven. If the promotion didn't have quality matches, it just wouldn't be ROH. However, all of the most-talked about programs in the company history from where I sit have involved a solid angle as well. The biggest selling ROH DVDs were Joe Vs Punk II then Joe vs Kobashi. I think that alone invalidates the notion that the previous statement about matches is something that is a minority held view, let alone a tiny one. Neither of those had any sort of story.
|
|
|
Post by Ryan on Oct 31, 2010 17:55:56 GMT -6
I don't know, I thought there was a story with Joe/Kobashi. It's the same story that was told when the NWA Champion would do a stopover in one of the old territories and put his championship on the line against a local favorite. What is it that "our guy" can do against this fellow from the outside who has been established as one of the best in the world. It's basic, but it's a story.
|
|
|
Post by John Hyperion on Oct 31, 2010 18:20:12 GMT -6
I don't know, I thought there was a story with Joe/Kobashi. It's the same story that was told when the NWA Champion would do a stopover in one of the old territories and put his championship on the line against a local favorite. What is it that "our guy" can do against this fellow from the outside who has been established as one of the best in the world. It's basic, but it's a story. That's not how the match was talked about or promoted before or after (ROH pretty much put out a press release saying all storylines were on hold for the weekend), but let's assume it was. Do you think it became the best selling ROH DVD of all time because people were riveted by that barebones un-story? Or because everyone and their mother said it was one of the best matches they'd ever seen? That's just the most obvious example, pretty much every thing else ROH or it's fans do or say suggests that people who are primarily focused on the quality and entertainment of the matches, and aren't very concerned with storylines, are a tiny minority. Same rules apply to SHIMMER. It's independent wrestling, after all.
|
|
|
Post by fuzzbuzz on Nov 1, 2010 17:49:24 GMT -6
I think SDR/Rachel Summerlyn is on tap for tonight.
Though seeing as how HDNet have banned ROHBrazil from uploading the shows on YouTube, most probably won't see it (at least through legal means). Can't imagine ROH are particularity happy about that move which shafts the international audience - loss of potential DVD sales or general interest in their product.
|
|
|
Post by SHIMMER office on Nov 1, 2010 17:51:52 GMT -6
Rights fees. The goal is to sell the show internationally to other networks. Nobody wants to buy a show that is already available for everyone to watch for free on YouTube.
|
|